Never did 'take' to this band but was in the bin with all above Greatest hits so, yeah kind of forgot about these songs though they are firmly lodged in my memory from repeat AOR station playing in grade school.
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A Question Here (It's Going to Be in 2 different comments since they won't allow me to post it too long) It’s sad what’s going on with this band, The band was put together by Dennis DeYoung in late 67 then he brought James “J.Y.” Young in 1969, When they first started out, they had this other guy John Curulewski in the band, then he quit after the third record, then Dennis brought in Tommy Shaw and both J.Y. and Tommy hated Dennis because Dennis was not a rock star (and I don’t think Dennis should’ve brought Rock & Rollers to the group since he’s not a rock star, he should’ve got Jazz Musicians like Jay Graydon, Lee Ritenour, Larry Carlton, Abaraham Laboriel or whatever playing with him) he didn’t look or dressed like one or acted like one, he wrote ballads (which they hated, but they went to #1 and the female fans love them, except hardcore rock & rollers) Tommy threatened to quit the band if they release “Babe” but the label was like “Nope, We’re Releasing ‘Babe’” and that went to #1, when Dennis did “Mr. Robato” and the Kilroy Was Here record, they hated that, they didn’t like how Dennis is going to a theatrical direction, in 1984, Tommy Shaw quit and they wanted to go on the road without him, but Dennis was like “No, Let’s Wait” So they did solo projects, and fast forward to 1991, Styx returns, but Tommy turned it down cause of the supergroup that he was in with Ted Nugent and Jack Blades called Damn Yankees (and when they sang live, they poked fun at “Babe”) So they brought in Glen Burtnick, the single they did with him singing “Love Is the Ritual” flopped, but the next single “Show Me the Way” A Dennis DeYoung Composition, became a hit and their last. In 1993, Tommy Shaw returns (and I’ll explain that in a second) And they go on tour with him, in 1997, Dennis gets sick, where he becomes light sensitive, he wanted to wait till he recovers so he can go on the road, and they get frustrated and they fired him (he gets fired out of his own group and by the guys he brought in to the band) and replaced him with a Canadian by the name of Larry Gowan, and in all of their interviews, they slam Dennis in all of their interviews, they act like “he’s a jerk, a control freak” and they don’t explain every detail on what happen (Like the reason Tommy Shaw returned was because he lost all of his money and was broke and they don’t explain that Dennis wanted to go on the road, but he wanted to wait, they don’t explain how when Tommy left Styx in ’84, they wanted to go on the road without him, but Dennis was like ‘No, Let’s Wait’)
After Dennis watched the VH-1 documentary where they are slamming him, Dennis notice they were making stuff up about him so he sued them, The suit was settled in 2001, with the group being allowed to keep the name "Styx" and DeYoung able to use the name in descriptive phrases such as "the music of Styx" or "formerly of Styx" (but not "the voice of Styx").And Every single interview, Tommy and J.Y. always slam him and act like “he’s a jerk” and they never talk positive about him, while other people (Jim Peterik from the Ides of March Survivor and Dennis’s second singer August Zadra) they talk positive about him and talk about him being “a nice guy” and some of the interviews I look through (prior to me knowing this stuff) Dennis does sound like a nice guy, he keeps making jokes, defends “Babe” and “Mr. Robato” cause the J.Y. Tommy and the Hardcore Fans don’t like it, but the female fans do and there’s always a billion people watching Dennis perform this live, The hardcore rock fan I talk to (Like I said, Nice guy, but not all the things I agree with) he doesn’t like “Babe” cause “It’s a ballad, not enough guitar” and “Mr. Robato” he doesn’t like as well and calls it “The Downfall of Styx.” But he did say “That’s Just Me.” But with this situation, he seems very casual with it, as if “Will never know who’s telling the truth” I’ll give his opinion on it and I quote “Since I don't know any of these people personally, I think it's hard to know who's telling the truth and what's the real story. To me it's a "he said, she said" thing where's there's probably some elements of truth in what they all say. In the end, I don't really care since it's the music I focus on. It's sad that so many bands have internal conflicts.I know on some of the music boards I go to, some guys obsess over who's right or wrong like Sammy Hagar versus David Lee Roth, or Dennis versus Tommy and J.Y. Their personal conflicts and egos don't interest me like I said - I just hope they can get along and make great music.” End of quote, I told him “Look, if you use your mind, do your resarch and whatever and make a decision, that's how you decide and know who's telling the truth, It sounds like to me you're like "I don't know"” he went “More like I don't really care since it's not my problem” I Gave him some examples (such as “Look sometimes when we hear things happen like out of nowhere, this guy who's been voicing a character for years and said he'll never retire in an old interview, out of nowhere, the game company says recently he's leaving and they wouldn't explain why and they got a new voice) all of these people are like "Yeah, he's getting old, he wants to retire" but I’m like "Why? Why, the media is not explaining anything" he says “I understand that. It's human nature to be curious” And I did agree with the last part (cause I mention this to other people as well) Where “I wish they could make amends so we can see them “One Last Time” and that was the only thing he agreed with” That was the only part he agreed with me at “On that we can agree - it would be nice for them to make amends and tour together.” Similar things happen to why Ace Frehley and Peter Criss were fired from Kiss, Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley claim “It’s drugs, we don’t do drugs, but they do, they couldn’t remember or play anything right and we had to let them go” And by accident (when I was listening to record producer Vini Poncia on working with Kiss) he was mentioning Ace and Peter had fights with Kiss and I looked it up and found more details, if you look things up? You would find more details, but this guy just sounds very casual, so with the Styx Situation (if you do your research on both side, if you want? No pressure) What is your take on it?
ClassicMusic20
Classic when you have 2 people against 1 the higher number wins from the teamwork advantage right or wrong. Also the vocalist takes the biggest “hit” as they are the most penetrating and the fan collective has the final say. Here is an example just yesterday at work when someone in my Marc Bolan group asked why he never made it in the States and here was my comment: I would say just one reason—his quivering voice reminded on the one hit the radio would played just rubbed those long hair insecure dorky music fans like my older brothers born in 60 & 62 the wrong way! It reminded them of their own cautious insecurities around females for example all nervous and shakes-voiced lifting their shoulders to shield their heads. They wanted confident hard rock with “dude-rock” vocals that I like to such as Pink Floyd, Evan Dando later from The Lemonheads are just a couple examples whereas Robert Plant had a stronger quiver with much louder hard rock to push it through into acceptance. So Marc made the most of it and found an audience in the teen mags and roller skating rinks amplifying the energy. Yeah Bang A Gong the radio hits totally amps him up for the market but still had that quivering vocal refrain.
I read the whole Wiki write up too on Styx and though the early prog teamwork w Dennis produced a timeless top ever album which wins they are saying the 2023 album is also top tier but I haven’t heard either which do you think is best? Lot of times with those timeless albums the fans didn’t know or have background to judge it’s greatness but that innocence is what makes it so great these days the fans are more educated with what has gone before at least we like to think this so maybe it has more weight and I didn’t see Dennis name on it too bad he has great so gs
The songs are actually not too bad on Styx’s recent album (2021 I’m talking about) But I think the Dennis DeYoung era is the best, I like both the Tommy Shaw and Dennis DeYoung songs of the 70s/80s, I think what Dennis DeYoung brought to the table are the best. Did you know the guy that replaced Dennis (Larry Gowan) when he sings with Styx live, he sings a minute of covers of other people songs (The Beatles, The Stones etc) And points the mic at the audience and has the whole crowd singing, and it’s weird and embarrassing because Styx has a great catalogue of songs, why would you have a guy singing a minute of covers of other people’s songs? Sounds like a karaoke party (By the way, My dad met Gown back in the 80s because a friend of his did the animation for his solo video called “Strange Animal”) And regarding Dennis DeYoung, When You Have Guys Like Him, He's a "Hitmaker" And also Like to Call Him "A Musical Genius" I Mean, he wrote the song that made Styx who they are “Lady” (which is about his wife, and same with their first #1 “Babe” again, about his wife) And if you look at his background (he worked in theater, sang in Broadway etc) And he brought J.Y. and Tommy Shaw in the band when they weren’t going anywhere, That’s what makes him so talented! That “Rock ‘n’ Roll Dude” Is not looking at it that way, he’s looking at it as “I Don’t know who’s telling the truth, I Don’t Care” The same happened about a year ago when I showed him Ray Parker Jr. writing “You Make Me Feel Like Dancing” and Leo’s producer Richard Perry Ripped off Ray and gave Leo and Vini Poncia credits as the writers, and in a different interview, Leo tells a totally different story on how the song was approach, and when I showed him that, he was like “I Don’t Know, Leo Sounds Honest.” And he ask my opinion “Who I Think Is Telling the Truth?” I told him Ray because again, Look at his background prior to that, a studio guitarist at only 16 years old! Playing on all of these peoples records, writing songs for Rufus & Chaka Khan, Barry White, Herbie Hancock and whatever, you’ve got to look at their backgrounds rather than saying “I Don’t Know Who’s Telling the Truth, It’s like a "he said, she said" thing” Cause Dennis Is a “Musical Genius” Also, This “Rock ‘n’ Roller” Fan doesn’t like the ballads that Dennis wrote (Except “Lady” because there’s guitar on there, forgot to put this there, he also said “After ‘Babe’ the label started asking for more ballads” not true what he said there) and he doesn’t like “Mr. Robato” and calls it “the downfall of Styx” so why bother asking him this question when he’s a “Hardcore Rock Fan” and he’s also “casual” about the music industry or whatever (as he didn’t even know Paul Anka was a teen idol in the 50s, he only knows his 70s catalogue and he also didn’t know Sly Stallone writes and directs movies) And there’s other “Rock ‘n’ Roll Fans” That don’t even like Dennis at all, I was talking to another one about 1/2 ago and he was like “I Don’t Like any of Dennis Songs, He sounds like a kid when he sings, but funny enough, he sounds mature nowadays” (Dennis voice always sounded the same to me, doesn’t sound like he matured) even Dennis admitted in an interview from a couple of years ago that some “Rock ‘n’ Rollers don’t like his voice” and the interviewer agreed
Interesting About the Marc Bolan you threw there (where he only had one hit here, while in the UK, he's very big there) Just a few days ago, I Was listening to an interview with Sir Cliff Richard and What's Interesting Is That He's Very Big in his native UK, Had tons of hits there and he's called "The British Elvis" While in the US and Here (in Canada) He only had a few hits, and what's interesting is that when he came out with "Devil Woman" and "We Don't Talk Anymore" the American Record Label didn't want to do anything with it, and then thanks to Elton John (who said "Can I Have Them?") And he had Rocket Records, so he put them both out and they were both in the top 10 in America and "We Don't Talk Anymore" sold 4 million copies! So, EMI America (The Record Label) Were not very good to Cliff.
Yeah our old sponsor record store Rocketstar Records had a cool clerk ther named Colin before the owner Anthony a Colombian -American from Florida who used to yell at people for no reason like me and was a media whore who pushed people about the vaccine then later wouldn’t allow anyone to speak of it eventually got rid of Colin who is at retirement age but he was from Detroit then WFMU in New Jersey and new a ton about cool new wave and alt bands that I got from him like Marc Riley and the Creepers or Bill Paxtons band the actor and cool dance stuff I’ve bought from him but he always said EMI was the worst label of them all! Last time I saw Anthony a year ago a month or so when my van worked with the new engine and I had to sell some vinyl after my local Jerk Dog stopped buying as he was overloaded Anthony had a kind of cool special needs kid in the store who loved to hear him play the piano which I didn’t know he could do so he played and it was very cool with fat fingers being so fluent at it and he seemed to have mellowed down quite a bit..I’ve sold me the MUNSTERS record and said to let him know what I thought about it which I will once I can afford to fix my van up next year after first paying off three cards. Kind of miss those guys and helped them move on the second move to his current store which is the best. The second store all in Sarasota Anthony got on the TV news about record store day and got Sam Ash to sponsor it and used the DU blog garage banner made by old member JayIRC a hardcore fan from Akron and put it with other RSD sponsors on a big banner on that second store and I got good pictures of it I was all excited about it. But I love my pedal bike and after 20 years am finally back to college weight from bike commuting A
and I admit getting bored from beach routine although Thanksgiving got sunny ther with a $35 meal on 2nd time I’ve been ther after my 1hour long Labor Day ride… I live on same street
Oh yeah I didn’t mention thanks for those two songs by Cliff as I had forgotten them and even cleared up some confusion I had about 2 Evil Woman songs I’ve posted as one was totally unfamiliar to me but I knew deep down that there was another that I wanted to hear again as that theme triggered the memory and now think it was Devil Woman all along! So a little closure like that is nice and that other hit was another one from the back of my head that used to start playing now and then. BTW I totally side with Dennis DeYoung from what you’ve said and think it pretty bad what they did to such a musical genius and never gave a damn about the Damned Yankees thinking they sucked turning the MTV channel right away! Well Chicago R.I.P. went very well even though the greatest hits with the single tracks was jacketless from Goidwill and the worst shape I have ever seen a record but just enough to extract those 2 and 2 tracks from VI that I needed to support the live Carnegie at the end of all of it which was minty but warped in a busted box set cover with minimal pops I had to cut (usually twice with edit undo if it doesn’t sound just right on the quite sections a couple areas about the same as on the Make Me Smile and Colour My World single tracks…wonder why they used the English spelling???
Yep! Glad to See Someone Siding With Me. And to close up the conversation (2 Parts Again As They Won't Let Me Put Everything Down) In the Rock 'n' Roll Community (As I heard) You're Suppose to "Rock Out With Guitars, You Can't Do Ballads, Play Acoustics or Have Keyboards in Your Songs Cause If You Do? You're Breaking the Rock & Roll Tradition Cause Rock 'n' Roll Is Supposing to Be About "Rocking Out'" Which is really false, you can do what you want with Rock. I Forgot to Mention this, Tommy Shaw and J.Y. Said "When "Mr. Robato" Came out, We lost half our fan base" and what they mean by that is they lost their "Hardcore Rock Fans" that song was a big hit for them and the female fans love that song! They haven't sung that song live since the Kilroy Was Here Tour In ‘83/84 (Until 34 years later in 2018, When Fans were asking "Where's "Mr. Robato?" so they had to go back performing it live because of that, but they "Rocked" It Up a bit, And also, they haven't sang "Babe" Live Since they kicked Dennis Out of the Band in ‘97) And speaking of Chicago, they had a similar story to when Peter Cetera wrote "If You Leave Me Now" They didn't like the song cause it's a ballad, but they were like "Let’s record and write whatever we want, including songs not everybody in the band loves, but, ‘hey, if you write a song? we’re going to do it, we’re going to do it the best we possibly can do it, cause that’s who we are” and they thought to themselves "that’s not who We are, and We know as nice as a song as is, nobody’s going to like it." Terry Kath would be one of them, because he hated this song because “It’s a ballad, we don’t do ballads! We’re a Fusion Band.” And he didn’t want to be near this song, And this song ended up becoming Chicago's first #1 hit and unlike Styx with "Babe" (where J.Y. and Tommy never sing that song live since firing Dennis) Chicago stills perform this song live up to date (And it's such as beautiful song that brings back memories for me)
And With Journey, When Keyboard Player Jonathan Cain joined the band and wrote their first two ballads ("Who's Crying Now" and "Open Arms") Their Guitarist Neal Schon hated those songs cause "They Were Ballads, We Don't Do Ballads, We're a Rock Band!" and he was like with "Open Arms" "Where Am I Suppose to Be in This Song?" But then started appreciating it when they did their Escape tour in '81 and he saw that these ballads bring in female fans to their shows, he didn't know ballads can do that and he started appreciating them after that. And With REO Speedwagon, They started off in the early 1970s as a jam band, they had longer songs, singles that weren't charting, Then by '78, they went commercial and came out with the album You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish, but the singles weren’t taking off and then fast forward to 1980, their lead singer Kevin Cronin (Who Is a Folky Guy) wrote this ballad called "Keep on Loving You" and their guitar player, Gary Richath hated it and was like "It's a Ballad, We Don't Do Ballads" and when Kevin played the song on piano over and over, Gary tried to drown him out with his guitar and Kevin was like "Dude, That's Perfect! Put It in the Song." (Ha, Ham that’s how the guitar solo came in) And that song made REO famous, it became their first hit (and also #1 hit) and the album High Infidelity sold very well! So yeah, Ballads can help bands become who they are and they're actually quite good songs, who cares what the "Hardcore Rock Fans" Say! My dad loves it when rock bands slow it down and do ballads, when he first heard Alice Cooper do ballads ("Only Women Bleed" "You and Me" and "How You Gonna See Me Now") He was like 'Wow! This doesn't sound like him, I like it' Or When Kiss did "Beth" He didn't even know it was Kiss and Liked It! While hardcore fans are like "This doesn't sound like them, it's too slow, there's not enough guitar, there’s need to be more guitar" Who Cares!
ClassicMusic20
Just want to send this, I think you'll Love what Dennis has to say here, this is from a 2018 facebook post where he's defending "Babe": "“Hey kids I’m not sure who or how this was filmed but yikes what a performance by everyone. (I feel I’ve posted this already and wrote about it but I couldn’t find it, I’m 71). This was my last Styx tour in 1997. There exists a 9 camera shoot of this tour somewhere, it was filmed in Phoenix. The singing the playing the live mix is all stellar. The Paradise song was initially written for Styx in the period after Show Me the Way went to number 3 and Edge went gold and yes, we could not get a record deal. Granted we were offered one from A&M but then our manager went and botched the deal. Since Styx had no deal I rewrote the lyrics and put it in The Hunchback of Notre Dame. When we reunited it went back to Styx. To me this is the most authentic power ballad we ever recorded. All the others including Lady which was written before there was even a thing called a power ballad were simply Styx songs. Soft melodic beginnings rudely interrupted by rock guitars and drums. (So that’s where the band was hiding). We were not following any formula cause there wasn’t any we just made it up. I remember thinking let’s be sweet and pretty here and just when the listener gets comfortable will fix em. Dynamics baby. If it’s loud all the time how do you know when it’s loud. What has over time become known as a “power ballad” is something different then Lady. For instance, Journey, REO, Night Ranger, among many others had very successful power ballads. Oh and any hair band in the 90’s beginning with the letter W as well. Even latter day Aerosmith and Heart had hits with power ballads that they didn’t even write. Heart’s comeback was based on “These Dreams”. Aerosmith covered a Diane Warren tune “I Don’t Want to Miss A Thing”. These are songs, romantic in nature that could have been straight ballads if not for fuzzy power chords drowning behind chord changes (hey were rockers dude)
just waiting for the big chorus and the obligatory heroic guitar solo. Oh and don’t forget the dramatic booming tom toms. Why did so many so called rock groups do these kinds of songs you ask. Simple. Real rockin songs had a hell of time no matter how popular on FM rock stations to cross over and get played on top 40 stations. Top 40 stations always reached the biggest audience and record companies and musicians alike were interested in finding the most fans. I’m not implying that these ballads were written simply for commercial reasons but it was one of the factors. Seems like every band had someone who could write a pretty good one and why not variety baby is the spice. Plus the soft songs make the loud ones seem louder. Top 40 stations back then tried to play a cross section of musical styles but they still harbored a fear of real rock. Lots of females comprised their core listening audience and stations did not want to alienate them. Ooh Billy that’s too loud and aggressive turn it off. To this day the songs the Classic Hits radio format feels most comfortable with are Pop rock songs. Thinks Too Much Time on My Hands vs Renegade. Renegade is too rock not enough pop. The former just enough pop and not too much rock and so it gets airplay. Power ballads are still kept to a minimum because radio programmers not only fear heavy rock but also fear too many slow songs boring the audience thus making the pop rock tune the perfect fit, the mama bear. Off on a tangent warning Dennis. Anyway, critics have always hated power ballads, branded them cheese and generally despise any hint of lyrical sentimentality. Besides people love cheese, think pizza. Me I’ll take a World filled with cheap sentimentality over one with none at all. And truth be told every night when we play Babe (a straight ballad not power) I see couples snuggle up and pull out their cell phones more than any other song in the set to record the moment...sentimental you say, you betcha and I for one love it. Cheers D Try this link Cheers CA.” Yep! Well said there, Dennis, There's a cool story on how he wrote "Babe" If you want to check it out? It charted at #1 this time 44 years ago, wow!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nddNPmevALw
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